was brought before the judge that sat there, he would not admit him to his presence, saying: “ I commanded not this man to be brought, but Stephen the smith ”: upon which words he was straightway restored to life, and Stephen the smith, that dwelled hard by, at that very hour departed this life: whose death did show that the words which he heard were most true. But though the foresaid Stephen escaped death in this manner at that time, yet three years since, in that mortality which lamentably wasted this city (and in which, as you know, men with their corporal eyes did behold arrows that came from heaven, which did strike divers), the same man ended his days: at which time a certain soldier being also brought to the point of death, his soul was in such sort carried out of his body, that he lay void of all sense and feeling, but coming quickly again to himself, he told them that were present, what strange things he had seen. For he said (as many report that know it smoky river did r smell: but upon pleasant green meadows Tull oF sweet flowers, in which also there were divers companies of men apparelled in white: and such a delicate savour there was, that the fragrant odour thereof did give wonderful content to all them that dwelt and walked in that place.) Divers particular mansions also there were, all shining with brightness and light, and especially one magnifical and sumptuous house which was a building, the brick whereof seemed to be of gold, but whose it was, that he knew not.
' There were also upon the bank of the foresaid river certain houses, but some of them the stinking vapour which rose from the river did touch, and some other it touched not at all. Now those that desired to pass over the foresaid bridge, were subject to this manner of trial: if any that was wicked attempted to go over, down he fell into that dark and stinking river; but those that were just and not hindered by sin, securely and easily passed over to those pleasant and delicate places. There he said also that he saw Peter, who was steward of the Pope’s family, and died some four years since, thrust into a most filthy place, where he was bound and kept down with a great weight of iron: and inquiring why he was so used, he received that answer, which all we that knew his life can affirm to be most true: for it was told him that he suffered that pain, because when him- self was upon any occasion to punish other, that he did it more upon cruelty than to shew his obedience; of which his merciless disposition none that knew him can be ignorant. There also he said that he saw a Priest whom he knew: who coming to the foresaid bridge, passed over with as great security, as he lived in this world sincerely.
Likewise, upon the same bridge he said that he did the farther side thereof there were see this Stephen, whom before we spake of, who being about to go over, his foot slipped, and half his body hanging beside the bridge, he was of certain terrible men, that rose out of the river, drawn by the legs downward: and by certain other white and beautiful persons, he was by the arms pulled upward: and whiles they strove thus, the wicked spirits to draw him down- ward, and the good to lift him upward, he that beheld all this strange sight returned to life, not knowing in conclusion what became of him. By which miraculous vision we learn this thing concerning the life of Stephen, to wit, that in him the sins of the flesh did strive with his works of alms. For in that he was by the legs drawn downward, and by the arms plucked upward, apparent it is, that both he loved to give alms, and yet did not perfectly resist the sins of the flesh, which did pull him downward: but in that secret examination of the supreme judge, which of them had the victory, that neither we know, nor he that saw it. Yet most certain it is, that the same Stephen, after that he had seen the places of hell, as before was said, and returned again to his body, did never perfectly amend his former wicked life, seeing many years after he departed this world, leaving us in doubt whether he were saved or damned. Whereby we may learn, that when any have the torments of hell shewn them, that to some it is for their com- modity, and to others for their testimony: that the former may see those miseries to avoid them, and these other to be so much the more punished, in that they would not take heed of those torments, which they both knew and with their eyes beheld.
IPCtet, What, I beseech you, was meant by the build- ing of that house in those places of delight, with bricks of gold? For it seemeth very ridiculous, that in the next life we should have need of any such kind of metal.
DeusoeDit tfje ^oemafeet Abatis meant ftp tfce PutlDtng of t&e&ouse in t&ooe pleasant places. 3nD of one DeusoeDit, topose pouse teas seen to be built upon tbe @>aturbap.
<25tC|JOtp. What man of sense can think so? but by that which was shewn there, whosoever he was, for whom that house was built, we learn plainly what virtuous works he did in this world: for he that by plenty of alms doth merit the reward of eternal light, certain it is, that he doth build his house with gold. For the same soldier who had this vision said also, which I forgot before to tell you, that old men, and young, girls, and boys, did carry those bricks of gold for the building of that house: by which we learn that those to whom we shew compassion in this world, do labour for us in the next. There dwelt also hard by us a religious man, called Deusdedit, who was a shoe- maker, concerning whom another saw by revelation that he had in the next world an house a building; but the workmen thereof laboured only upon the Saturday. Who afterward enquiring more diligently how he lived, found that whatsoever he got by his labour all the week, and was not spent upon necessary provision of meat and apparel, all that upon the Saturday he bestowed upon the poor in alms at St. Peter’s church: and there- fore see what reason there was, that his building went forward upon the Saturday.
You have given me very good satisfaction touching this one point: yet desirous I am further to know, what the reason was that some of those habitations were touched by the stinking vapour, and some were not; and what is meant by the bridge and river which he saw.
<£>t00Otp. By the representation of these things, Peter, are expressed the causes which they do signify. For the bridge, by which he beheld God’s servants to pass unto those pleasant places, doth teach us that the path is very C&e Dialogues of ©regot]?
strait which leadeth to everlasting life: 1 and the stinking river, which he saw running beneath, signifieth that the filthy corruption of vice in this world doth daily run to the downfall of carnal pleasure. And that some of the habitations were touched with the stinking vapour, and some were not, what is meant else, but that there be divers which do many good works, yet in their soul they are touched with the delight of carnal sins? and therefore very great reason there is, that in the next world such should taste of a stinking vapour, whom filthy carnality did delight in this; and therefore blessed Job, perceiving the pleasure of the flesh to be stinking, pronounceth this sentence of the wanton and carnal man: His sweetness be worms? But those that do preserve their heart free from all pleasure of carnal thoughts, have not their houses touched with any such stinking vapour: and here we have also to note, that he saw one and the same thing both to be a vapour and also to have an ill savour, because carnal delight doth so obscure the soul which it hath infected, that it can not see the brightness of true light: for the more pleasure it hath in the inferior part, the more darkness it hath in the superior, which doth hinder it from the contemplation of heavenly mysteries.
Is there any text of holy scripture, to prove that carnal sins be punished with stinking and bad savours?
flDf tfje IPuntsfjment of t&e men of ^oDorn.
<£>tejJ0tp, There is: for in Qenesis 3 we read that our Lord rained fire and brimstone upon the city of Sodom: that both fire might burn them, and the stench of brimstone smother and kill them: for seeing they burnt with the unlawful love of corruptible flesh, by God’s just judgment they perished both by fire and an un- savoury smell; to the end they might know that they 1 Matt. 7, 14. 2 Job 24, 20. 3 Gen. 19, 24.
€be Conbetston of CbeoDotus had, by the pleasure of their stinking life, incurred the sorrows of eternal death.
IPftCt. Concerning those things which before I doubted of, I find myself now so fully satisfied, that I have not any further question to move.
Cfraptet Ctrittp-seoen: boto tbe souls of some men, being: pet in tbeit bodies. Do see some spititual punishment: anD of that tobicb bap= peneD to the bop Cbeoootus. <1 <£>regotp. We have also to know that sometime the souls, whiles they are in their bodies, do behold some spiritual punishment: which yet happeneth to some for their own good, and to others for the edification of them that hear thereof. For there was one Theodorus (which story I remember that in mine Homilies to the people I have also spoken of) who was a very unruly lad, and, more upon neces- sity than of his own good will, in the company of his brother entered into my Monastery: and so little pleasure he took in spiritual talk, that it was death to him to hear anything tending to the good of his own soul, for he was so far from doing any good work, that he could not endure to hear thereof: and he would openly protest, sometimes by swearing, sometimes in anger, and sometimes in scoffing sort, that he never meant to take upon him the habit of a religious life. This untoward boy, in the late mortality which con- sumed the greatest part of this city, was grievously strooken: whereof he lay sore sick: and being at last come to the point of death, all the monks repaired to his chamber, to pray for the happy departure of his soul, which seemed not to be far off: for the one half of his body was already dead, and only in his breast a little life remained, and therefore the nearer they saw him to his end, the more fervently did they commend him to God’s mercy. Whiles they were thus busied, suddenly he cried out to them, and with great clamour went about Cfce Dialogues of <S5regotp to interrupt their devotions, saying: “ Depart and away, for behold I am delivered over to a dragon to be devoured, and your presence doth let him, that he can not dispatch me. My head he hath already swallowed up in his mouth, and therefore go your ways, that my torments be not the longer, and that he may effect that which he is about to do: for if I be given him to devour, why do you keep me here in longer pain? ” At these fearful words the monks said unto him: w Why do you speak thus, good brother? Bless your- self with the sign of the holy cross ”: to whom he answered: “ Willingly I would, but I can not, I am so loaden with this dragon’s scales.” Upon these words the monks fell prostrate upon the earth, and in great zeal with tears they prayed to God for his delivery out of the enemy’s hands, who mercifully heard them, for upon a sudden the sick person began to cry out, and say: “ God be thanked, behold the dragon that had me to devour, is fled away, and overcome with your prayers, here he could not tarry. Now, I beseech you, make intercession for my sins, for I am ready to turn unto God, and wholly to renounce all kind of secular life ”: and thus he that was half dead, as before was said, re- served now to a longer life, turned to God with his whole heart: and so, after he had put on a new mind, and was a long time punished with affliction, then his soul departed from the miseries of this mortal life.
Chapter Cfrirt^eig&t: oftfjeDeatf) of c&risorius; anti of a certain fi@onfeof 31conia. <1 But Chrisorius on the contrary (as his kinsman Probus, of whom I made mention before, told me) was a substantial man in this world, but as full of sin as of wealth: for he was passing proud, given to the pleasures of the flesh, covetous, and wholly set upon scraping of riches to- gether. But when God determined to make an end of so many sins, he sent him a great sickness; and when C6e Deatf) of dLW&otim his last time drew near, in that very hour in which his soul was to leave the body, lying with his eyes open, he saw certain cruel men and black spirits stand before him, pressing upon him to carry him away to the pit of hell: at which fearful sight he began to tremble, to wax pale, to sweat, and with pitiful outcries to crave for truce: and often with faltering tongue to call for his son Maximus (whom, when I was a monk, I knew also to profess the same kind of life), saying: cc Come away, Maximus, with all speed. Never in my life did I any harm to thee, receive me now in thy faith / y His son, greatly moved at these outcries, came unto him in all haste: and his whole family lamenting and crying out, repaired also to his chamber: none of all which beheld those wicked spirits, which did so urge and vex him: but by his trouble of mind, by his paleness and trembling, they made no doubt of their presence: for he was so affrighted with their terrible looks, that he turned himself everyway in his bed. Lying upon his left side, he could not endure their sight: and turning to the wall, there also he found them: at last, being very much beset, and despairing of all means to escape their hands, he cried out with a loud voice: cc O truce till to-morrow, O truce till to-morrow ”: and crying out in this sort he gave up the ghost. This being the manner of his death, certain it is that he saw this fear- ful sight not for himself, but for us: that his vision might do us good, whom God’s patience doth yet with fatherly long sufferance expect to amendment. For what profit reaped he by seeing those foul spirits before his death, and by craving for that truce which he could not obtain?
There is also now dwelling amongst us a Priest of Isauria called Athanasius, who telletha very fearful story which in his time happened, as he saith, at Iconium. For there was in that place, as he reporteth, a Monastery called Thongolaton, in which there lived a monk that was had in great account: for he was of good conversa- tion, and in his life very orderly: but, as the end declared, he was far otherwise than he outwardly appeared: for though he did seem to fast with the rest of the monks, yet did he secretly take his meat: which vice of his none of the other monks ever understood. But at length it came forth by this means: for falling grievously sick, so that no hope of life remained, he caused all the monks of the Convent to be called together, who all willingly came, verily thinking that, at the departure of so notable a man, they should have heard some sweet and good exhortation: but it fell out far otherwise, for with great trouble of mind, and trembling of body, he was enforced to tell them that he died in a damnable state, saying: “ When you thought that I fasted with you, then had I my meat in secret corners: and behold, now I am delivered to a dragon to be devoured, who with his tail hath enwrapped fast my hands and feet: and his head he hath thrust into my mouth, and so he lieth sucking and drawing out of my breath ”: and speaking these words he departed this life, and had not any time given to deliver himself by penance from that dragon which he saw. By which we learn, that he had this vision only for the commodity of them that heard it, seeing himself could not escape from the enemy which he beheld, and into whose hands he was given to be devoured.
Desirous I am to be informed, whether we ought to believe that after death there is any fire of Purgatory.
Chapter €htrtp=nme; together there he an? fire of IPurgatorp in the nert toorlD* q ®regorp, Our Lord saith in the Gospel: Walk whiles you have the light: 1 and by his Prophet he saith: In time accepted have I heard thee, and in the day of salvation have I holpen thee; 2 which the Apostle St. Paul expounding, saith: Behold, Cbe Docttinc of Iptttgatorp now is the time acceptable; behold y now the day of salvation} Solomon, likewise, saith: Whatsoever thy hand is able to do y work it instantly: for neither work y nor reason, nor know - ledge y nor wisdom shall be in hell y whither thou dost hasten? David also saith: Because his mercy is for ever? By which sayings it is plain, that in such state as a man departeth out of this life, in the same he is presented in judgment before God. But yet we must believe that before the day of judgment there is a Purgatory fire for certain small sins: because our Saviour saith, that he which speaketh blasphemy against the holy Ghost, that it shall not be forgiven him y neither in this world, nor in the world to come? Out of which sentence we learn, that some sins are forgiven in this world, and some other may be pardoned in the next: for that which is denied concern- ing one sin, is consequently understood to be granted touching some other. But yet this, as I said, we have not to believe but only concerning little and very small sins, as, for example, daily idle talk, immoderate laughter, negligence in the care of our family (which\ kind of offences scarce can they avoid, that know in what sort sin is to be shunned), ignorant errors in matters of no great weight: all which sins be punished after death, if men procured not pardon and remission for them in their lifetime: for when St. Paul saith, that Christ is the foundation: and by and by addeth: And if any man build upon this foundation gold y silver, precious stones, wood y hay y stubble: the work of every one y of what kind it is y the fire shall try. If any man s work abide which he built thereupon, he shall receive reward; if any man s work burn y he shall suffer detriment but himself shall be saved y yet so as by fire? For although these words may be understood of the fire of tribulation, which men suffer in this world: yet if any will interpret them of the fire of Purgatory, which Cfje Dialogues of St ©regotp shall be in the next life: then must he carefully con- sider, that the Apostle said not that he may be saved by fire, that buildeth upon this foundation iron, brass, or lead, that is, the greater sort of sins, and therefore more hard, and consequently not remissible in that place: but wood, hay, stubble, that is, little and very light sins, which the fire doth easily consume. Yet we have here further to consider, that none can be there purged, no, not for the least sins that be, unless in his lifetime he deserved by virtuous works to find such favour in that place.
Chapter jTortp; of t&e soul of pasdmsius tfje Deacon* For when I was yet in my younger years, and lived a secular life, I heard from the mouth of mine elders, who knew it to be true: how that Pas- chasius, a Deacon of this Roman church (whose sound and eloquent books of the holy Ghost be extant amongst us), was a man of a wonderful holy life, a marvellous giver of alms, a lover of the poor, and one that con- temned himself. This man, in that contention which, through the exceeding hot emulation of the clergy, fell out betwixt Symmachus and Lawrence, made choice of Lawrence to be Bishop of Rome: and though he was afterward by common consent overcome, yet did he con- tinue in his former opinion till his dying day: loving and preferring him, whom the Church, by the judgment of Bishops, refused for her governor. This Deacon ending his life in the time of Symmachus, Bishop of the Apostolic see: a man possessed with a devil came and touched his dalmatic, as it lay upon the bier, and was forthwith delivered from that vexation. Long time after, Germanus, Bishop of Capua (before mentioned), by the counsel of physicians, for the recovery of his health went to the baths: into which after he was entered, he found there standing in those hot waters the foresaid Paschasius, ready to do him service. At which €be ^oul of Paschasius sight being much afraid, he demanded what so worthy a man as he was did in that place: to whom Paschasius returned this answer: “ For no other cause,” quoth he, “am I appointed to this place of punishment, but for that I took part with Lawrence against Symmachus: and therefore 1 beseech you to pray unto our Lord for me, and by this token shall you know that your prayers be heard, if, at your coming again, you find me not here.” Upon this, the holy man Germanus betook himself to his devotions, and after a few days he went again to the same baths, but found not Paschasius there: for seeing his fault proceeded not of malice, but of ignorance, he might after death be purged from that sin. And yet we must withal think that the plentiful alms which he be- stowed in this life, obtained favour at God’s hands, that he might then deserve pardon, when he could work nothing at all for himself.
PCtCt, What, I pray you, is the reason, that, in these latter days, so many things come to light, which in times past were not known: in such sort that by open revela- tions and manifest signs, the end of the world seemeth not to be far off?
Chapter j?ortp=one: to bp in latter times so manp things be knoton, concerning men’s souls: tobicb in former ages toete not bearD of. § ®regorp, So it is, for the nearer that this present world draweth to- wards an end, so much the more the world to come is at hand, and sheweth itself by more plain and evident tokens. For seeing, in this world, we know not one another’s cogitations, and, in the next, men’s hearts be known to all, what fitter name can we give to this world than to term it night, and what better to the next, than to call it day? But as, when the night is almost spent, and the day beginneth to break, darkness and light be in a certain manner joined together, until the light of the day following doth perfectly banish away the dark rem- €be Dialogues of St (Sregotp nants of the former night: even so, the end of this world is, as it were, mingled together with the beginning of the next, and with the darkness of this, some light of such spiritual things as be in that doth appear: and so we see many things which belong to that world, yet for all this, perfect knowledge we have not any, but as it were in the twilight of our soul behold them before the rising of that sun of knowledge, which then abundantly will cast his beams over all.
Ipetet, i like very well of your speech, yet, in so worthy a man as Paschasius was, this doubt doth trouble me, how he was after his death carried to any place of punish- ment, seeing the touching of his garment upon the bier did dispossess a wicked spirit.
<$regorp, Herein appeareth the great and manifold providence of almighty God, by whose just judgment it fell out, that Paschasius for some time entertained in- wardly sin in his soul, and yet in the sight of the world wrought miracles by his body after his death, who in his lifetime did, as they know, many good works: to the end that those which had seen his virtuous life, should not be deceived concerning the opinion of his great alms; and yet himself should not without punishment have remis- sion of his sin, which whiles he lived he thought to be no sin, and therefore did not by tears wash it away.
I understand very well what you say, but by this reason I am driven into such straights, that I must stand in fear both of those sins which I know, and also of those which I know not. But because a little before you discoursed of the places of torments: in what part of the world, I beseech you, are we to believe that hell is, whether above the earth or beneath the same?
Chapter jFortg^ttoo; m tuhat place of the tootlti toe ought to helteoe that hell is, q ®regorp* Touch- ing this point I dare not rashly define anything: for some have been of opinion that hell was in some place Wfozxz fyz\\ is upon the earth; and others think that it is under the earth: but then this doubt ariseth, for 'if it be there- fore called hell, or an infernal place, because it is below, then as the earth is distant from heaven, so likewise should hell be distant from the earth: for which cause, perhaps, the Prophet saith: Thou hast delivered my soul from the lower hell f so that the higher hell may seem to be upon the earth, and the lower under the earth: and with this opinion that sentence of John agreeth, who, when he had said, that he saw a book sealed with seven. seals: and that none was found worthy, neither in heaven, nor in earth, nor under the earthy to open the book, and loose the seals thereof: 2 he added forthwith: and I wept much: which book, notwithstanding, afterward he saith was opened by a lion of the tribe of Juda. By which book, what else can be meant but the holy scripture, which our Saviour alone did open: for being made man, by his death, resurrection, and ascension, he did reveal and make manifest all those mysteries which in that book were closed and shut up. And none in heaven, because not any Angel; none upon earth, because not man living in body; not any under the earth was found worthy; because neither the souls departed from their bodies could open unto us, beside our Lord himself, the secrets of that sacred book. Seeing, then, none under the earth is said to be found worthy to open that book, I see not what doth let, but that we should believe that hell is it) the lower parts, under the earth.
i beseech you: Is there one fire in hell, or, according to the diversity of sinners, be there so many sorts of fire prepared in that place?
Chapter jFottp=ti)tee: topetpet tfjete is one fite in pell, ot many. «J ©regotp. The fire of hell is but one: yet doth it not in one manner torment all sinners. For every one there, according to the quantity of his sin, Cfre Dialogues of ©regorp hath the measure of his pain. For as, in this world, many live under one and the same sun, and yet do not alike feel the heat thereof: for some be burnt more, and some less: so in that one fire, divers manners of burning be found, for that which in this world diversity of bodies doth, that in the next doth diversity of sins: so that although the fire be there all alike, yet doth it not in one manner and alike burn and torment them that be damned.
IPCtCt. Shall those, I pray you, which be condemned to that place, burn always, and never have any end of their torments?
Chapter j?ottp=fout: toftetf iet those that be in bell shall bum tbete for eber. q ©regorp. Certain it is, and without all doubt most true, that as the good shall have no end of their joys, so the wicked never any release of their torments: for our Saviour himself saith: The wicked shall go into everlasting punishment^ and the just into everlasting life d Seeing, then, true it is, that which he hath promised to his friends: out of all ques- tion false it cannot be, that which he hath threatened to his enemies.
Peter. What if it be said that he did threaten eternal pain to wicked livers, that he might thereby restrain them from committing of sins?
<£>tegOtp. If that which he did threaten be false, because his intent was by that means to keep men from wicked life: then likewise must we say that those things are false which he did promise: and that his mind was thereby to provoke us to virtue. But what man, though mad, dare presume so to say? For if he threatened that which he meant not to put into execution: whiles we are desirous to make him merciful, enforced we are likewise (which is horrible to speak) to affirm him to be deceitful. Willing I am to know how that sin can justly OEuetlastmg punishment be punished without end, which had an end when it was committed.
(Stegorp. This which you say might have some reason, if the just judge did only consider the sins committed, and not the minds with which they were committed: for the reason why wicked men made an end of sinning was, because they also made an end of their life: for willingly they would, had it been in their power, have lived without end, that they might in like manner have sinned without end. For they do plainly declare that they desired always to live in sin, who never, so long as they were in this world, gave over their wicked life: and therefore it belongeth to the great justice of the supreme judge, that they should never want torments and punishment in the next world, who in this would never give over their wicked and sinful life.