THE FIRST ZURICH DISPUTATION. 53 Then Master Ulrich Zwingli spoke as follows: Pious brothers in Christ, the worthy Lord Vicar seeks so many evasions and subterfuges for the purpose of turning your simplicity from your understanding with artful, rhetorical, evasive words.* For he claims and says that he does not desire to discuss the good old once before noon, but never before noon answered by the worthy Master Ulrich. To be sure, after noon he did say a little, but did not better the matter, but as far as he was concerned (as I understood it) made it worse. (Faber. ) ‘‘ Hereupon Hans Hab, according to ‘ Gyrenrupfen,’ answered: ‘It may be that Zwingli forgot to answer in the forenoon; what does that matter? Who would have cared to answer your lengthy nonsense? But didn’t he answer it after din- ner? Hence let us sit in judgment upon the XV. chapter of the Acts, then we shall find it is against you, and not for you. You have spoken in this manner, we will now let it be, and as often as one wished to consider the books you have gotten out of it in another fashion.’ Faber continues: ‘In his little book about the choice of food Zwingli has permitted all food, and still it is found in the letter which Paul received at Jerusalem from the twelve apostles that the sacrifice of calves and other meat which was offered to the idols was forbidden. He thinks that this ordinance has expired if there is no more heathenism or idolatry, which I did not answer for good reason. But see whether there be not in Africa still idolatry, and Christians still live among them in the newly- discovered islands,’ etc. Hereupon Hab (ib.) again: ‘Do you not remember that Zwingli said Paul himself did not keep it? Why don’t you look at the Scriptures with him?’ Faber continues: ‘Not I, but Mr. Fritz v. Anwyl, reported concerning this at the council of Niimberg. For that I refer to him and your lords of Ziirich. But if nevertheless I have said it, then see whether Master Ulrich or I had better information from Niirnberg—look at the decree of Niimberg. But the new teachers and evangelists from the North do not wish any weight to be given to past or future decrees or councils unless they favor them. But they do rightly; they know that their doctrine would be condemned before even half of the fathers had gathered—they cannot endure the councils. Their song must not only be the song of the angels, but of God, and whatever the pious fathers say only human foolishness.’ (Faber, correc- tion.) How often have you heard from Zwingli that he did not wish to have only two judges, but to have all believers judge whether you or he is corrupting the Scriptures. But you were unable to come to this.”? (‘* Gyrenrupfen.’’) ] *[‘* Have you not heard that Zwingli said there was too much of my talk, and I thereupon offered to prove my statements if all things were noted down, for I do not care to speak into the air??? (Faber.)]
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yi / customs or venerable usages concerning ecclesiastical ordinances, but I say that we do not want to ask here how long this or that custom or habit has been in use. But we desire to speak of the truth (to find out), whether a man is bound by divine ordinance to keep that which on account of long usage has been set up as law by men. For we of course think (as also the pope’s own decree says) that custom should yield to truth. As to claim- ing that such matters should be settled by a Christian as- sembly of all nations, or by a council of bishops, etc., I say that here in this room is without doubt a Christian assembly.* For I hope that the majority of us here desire from divine will and love to hear, to further and to know the truth, which wish Almighty God will not deny us if we desire it to His honor with right belief and right hearts. For the Lord says: Where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there among them. Also in times past did not bishops assemble in councils as secular princes? How then are we to claim and say that the pious fathers of past times assembled for Christian business? Were there not doubtless such powerful prelates and bishops as now, as they say there must be? This is truthfully proved by the testimony of trustworthy writings of old. And this is proved also by the word “Episcopus,” which when properly turned into German means no more than a watchman or overseer who has the care and attention of his people, and who is also charged with instructing them in the divine belief and will; in good German this is a clergyman (Pfarrer). Since now here in this assembly there are so many honest, pious, Christian men, not alone living within the territories of my Lords of Zurich, but also coming from elsewhere, and also many learned, Godfearing bishops and clergymen, who sit here without doubt to further the truth of God and to hear and to know the divine truth, there is then, in spite of what the Vicar says, no reason why they should *[**In which there are many Godfearing curates; also many doctors and real friends of God.’’ (Bullinger. )] re aa re ee ee N 4 j ¥ \ } { ; N pal EA Gg F Ww » Me j ; DA / || THE FIRST ZURICH DISPUTATION. 55 not discuss these matters, speak and decide the truth. ‘To the remark that the other nations would not consent, I answer that this is just the complaint which is made every day concerning the “ big moguls” (grossen Hansen, literally “big Jacks), bishops and priests, that they undertake to keep the pure and clear Gospel, the Holy Scriptures, from the common people. For they say that it is not proper for any but themselves to expound the Scriptures, just as though other pious men were not Christians and had noth- ing to do with the spirit of God, and must be without knowledge of God’s word. And there are also some of them who might say that it is improper to publish the secrets of the divine Scrip- tures.* For there is no doubt in my mind that if the pure truth of Christ alone, not adulterated with human ordinances, were preached to the above-mentioned peoples or nations, and not covered up with papal and imperial mandates and those of bishops, they would as pious Christian hearts accept the truth and let the customs or ordinances (constitutions) of men go, and enlightened by God’s word, would be in harmony and agreement with the others. However, as to the council which is said to be announced at Nuremberg, it seems to me that the thing is proposed only to put off the common people desirous of God’s word. For I tell you, dear Lords, that let- ters came to me about three days ago from Nuremberg,f which I could show if necessary, in which there was, to be sure, some mention made of a council, but I do not understand that anything has really been decided. For pope, bishops, prelates and the ‘ big.
moguls’ will allow no council in which the divine Scriptures were set forth in their clearness and purity. It is also plain that nothing will come of it this year, however much the common Christian earnestly did toward it, because sufficient supplies could not be *[**I did not write a book ‘de non revelandis mysteriis,’ but against the rash, against those who in an impious manner handle holy things or Scriptures.’ (Faber. )] + These letters are no longer extant.
collected in so short a time for so large an assembly. I concede also that a council will be announced in time. But meanwhile how are we to treat those whose consciences have gone astray so far as to desire eagerly to know the truth? Would you rob these thirsty souls of the truth, let them hang in doubt, frighten them by human ordinances, and let them live or die in uncer- tainty as to the truth? Really, my pious brethren, this is no \ small thing. God will not demand of us what pope, bishop and / council establish and command, nor how long this or that has been in praiseworthy and ancient usage, but He will find out ‘how His divine will, word and commandments have been kept.* Now finally, since reference is made to the judges which my Lord Vicar thinks cannot be found outside the universities, I say that we have here infallible and unprejudiced judges, that is the Holy Writ, which can neither lie nor deceive. These we have * [Hager in ‘‘Gyrenrupfen ’’ presents the dispute about the council thus: ‘After this Mr. Fritz, the majordomo, very cleverly presented the com- mand of his master, saying that his master had been surely informed, that in a year there would be a council. Concerning this Zwingli did not wish to speak. Thereupon you immediately began to speak, and rose and said the same as Mr. Fritz had just said, and in a nice way referred to the future council and showed yourself a little more, just as if the matter had not also been commended to you. Thereupon Zwingli arose, and said we should not be led astray by the council; he also had had a letter in which he was informed how the German princes had demanded from the pope that he have a council within a year, but that the pope had formally assented had not yet happened, nor is it possible (he said) that within the space of a yeara general council could be gathered together; furthermore the three mightiest lords, King of France, Emperor, and King of England, were at war with each - Jother, who could not easily be conciliated; also that the fixing of the councij ' would be left to the Germans. Hence one could see that the promise of a council was only a postponement, not a definite resolve; but it mattered little whether they had a council or not, for he believed that no man would live to see a council in which the word of God would be allowed to rule. Therefore, even if a council should be held at once, one would not care either, for we would depend upon and preach the word of God; may the councils determine herein what they please.’’ After this he from Neftenbach arose and spoke. ] THE FIRST ZURICH DISPUTATION. 57 present in Hebrew, Greek and Latin tongues; these let us take on both sides as fair and just judges.* Also we have here in our city, God be praised, many learned colleagues who are as sufficiently taught in these three languages as none at the universities just named and mentioned by the Lord Vicar. But I am speaking of those who conduct the above- mentioned universities as superiors and heads; I do not mean Erasmus of Rotterdam and others, who stay at times at the uni- versities as strangers and guests. Here in this room are sitting also doctors of the Holy Writ, doctors of canonical law, many scholars from the universities. They should hear the Scriptures. ) which are referred to, have them read, to see if that is so which they try and pretend to support by divine Scriptures. And: as if all that was not sufficient there are in this assembly many | Christian hearts, taught doubtless by the Holy Spirit, and possessing such upright understanding, that in accordance with God’s; spirit they can judge and decide which party produces Scripture on its side, right or wrong, or otherwise does violence. to Scripture contrary to proper understanding. ‘There is therefore no reason why excuse should here be made. Hence, dear friends, do not jet the speeches here made frighten you. And especially you of Zurich should consider it a great blessing and power of God that such an undertaking should be made here in your city to the praise and honor of God, in order that the pious subjects of your territories and lands should no longer, as heretofore, be suspended, in doubt and dissension. With humble hearts call upon God. He will not refuse you His divine recognition, as the epistle of James promises, if you ask in true faith, and do not let yourselves *[““On the contrary I told how Paul did not boast of the languages when he went to the Corinthians, not ‘in sublimitate sermonis’ or high wisdom. Thus one finds in the life of Hilary that the evil spirit often spoke in Greek and other tongues. And therefore I did not boast, rightly, about the languages, although I brought with me to you from Constance the Hebrew and Greek Bible; also had them both with you at the city hall. Do you think I have never heard or read Hebrew or Greek?’’ (Faber. )] 5 58 ZWINGLI SELECTIONS.
be dissuaded and deceived in any way by smooth and pleasant (well-appearing) words.
At these words of Zwingli’s every one remained silent for a time, and no one wanted to say anything upon the matter, till the burgomaster of Zurich arose and urged any there present who wished to say anything about the matter, or knew anything to say about the affair, to step forward. But no one spoke.
Since thus every one was silent, and no one was anxious to speak against Master Ulrich, who had before been called a heretic behind his back, Master Ulrich himself arose and spoke: For the sake of Christian love and truth I urge and beg all who have spoken earnestly to me on account of my sermons to step forward and to instruct me, for the sake of God, in the truth in the presence of so many pious and learned men. In case they do not do this I assure them that I shall summon publicly by name each of them, of whom I know many to be present. But on account of brotherly love I wish to inform them beforehand, N so that they may arise of themselves unsummoned by me and prove me a heretic.*. But no one desired to come forward or say anything against him.
Meantime Gutschenkel [a buffoon from Bern], standing in front by the door, cut a ridiculous caper, and eried out: “ Where "are now the ‘ big moguls’ that boast so loudly and bravely on the streets? Now step forward! Here is the man. You can all boast over your wine, but here no one stirs.’’ All laughed at that.
Then Master Ulrich arose again, urged and begged a second time all who had accused and attacked him about his sermons to step forth and prove him a heretic. In case they did not do that, and did not step forward unsummoned by name, he would * [““Am I not right? If you do not do that I shall name those who call me heretic, but I warn you in advance that it is more honest to step forward un- called.’ (Bullinger.) The word of the abbot of Cappel: ‘*‘ Where are they now who wish to burn us?’’ Bullinger places here. ] THE FIRST ZURICH DISPUTATION. 59 for a third time publicly summon them, etc., as above. When every one remained silent as to the invitation and challenge of Master Ulrich a priest by the name of James Wagner arose, a clergyman at Neftenbach,* and spoke as follows: Learned, wise, honorable, specially favorable, lords (gentlemen?) and princes: Since there is no one who wishes to speak of these matters after the repeated summons of Master Ulrich, I must, as the least skillful, say something. It is well known to you all,,„''" gentlemen, that our gracious Lord of Constance this year issued! f ¢ a mandate f ordering people to retain and keep the ¢raditones | "Xp humanas until they were rescinded and changed by a general,,* 4 council. Now since no one will say anything against Master ' ae Ulrich’s articles, which oppose the constitutiones humanas, 1 say | for my part, and hope and think, that we ought not to be bound to keep that mandate, but should preach the word of God, pure and unadulterated by human additions. You know also, dear Lords, how the clergyman of Fislisbach { was arrested according to the mandate, taken to Baden before the Diet, which afterwards \ \ _ gave him into the keeping of the bishop of Constance, who finally \ y put him in prison. If we are to teach and preach according to ie) the contents of the mandate, then Master Ulrich’s words have no force. But since there is no one here present who dare (darf) say anything against them, to show them untrue, it is plain that proceedings with the gentleman from Fislisbach were too short.
For this reason Ispeak, this good gentleman and clergyman said * A village 12 miles northeast of Zurich.
+ In Füssli’s Beiträgen, IV., 125-129.
t On the border of Switzerland, but in Baden. His name was Urban Weiss. He had announced from his pulpit on his return from the Zurich meeting of August 15, 1522, that he would no longer call upon the Virgin Mary or the saints. He also married. The bishop of Constance complained against him at the Diet of Baden, which wished him arrested, but some friends went surety for him. However, the Diet in November, 1522, ordered his arrest. He was examined in Constance, and apparently as the result of the use of torture re- canted and then was liberated.
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further, and I would like to have judgment as to how I should act in the future as to such mandate of the bishop.* * [Faber accuses Hegenwald of error in the order of his speeches.
‘You note me down as if I had made the fourth speech, and bring forth a speech of which truly I would be ashamed, provided I could not erase it by means of the Scriptures better by the grace of God. You have noted me down as if I had immediately broken forth after the speech of Zwingli, which you know is not true. For I learnt long ago from Roman histories that an ambas- sador should not exceed his authority. This I have not forgotten, that one should not preach unless he be sent. Therefore since I have not been sent by my gracious lord as a combatant, but as a spectator, yea as a peaceful umpire, I did not wish to answer the many speeches and demands; also partly exhor- tation of Zwingli. And where there had been a long silence, you know that Mr. Ulrich having dared to name several, requested us from Constance urgently, still I maintained silence until the priest (whom you call), v. Mittenbach (Nef- tenbach), referred to my gracious lord and myself so much and so clearly that I thought, and I also said it to the mighty lord Fritz Jacob v. Anwyl, that I could not leave that unanswered. For although you closed the speech accord- ing to your wont, still you omit that the priest says among other things that the bishop of Constance had forbidden to preach the Gospel—write what the Vicar there said—then you will find that I said before, Iam not here to suppress the Gospel and St. Paul, for who would do that in view of the tale how the ange] had brought and proclaimed to the shepherds upon the pasture when Christ was born the consoling message that in the Gospel was the salvation, yea the way and the truth, in comparing the New and Old Testament; also the four evan- gelists are the four rivers of Paradise, which make fruitful the whole world with the water of divine grace; it has been arranged with better order, as St. Paul says, and I also have helped in it, since my ‘scholastici doctores’ have been diligently read and underscored by me, so that they also have become dirty from my hands. Thus I have also seen that it would be better and more wholesome to leave sophistry and to bring forward the Gospel and the prophets and also other divine writings. Therefore I held to the first proposition, how this might happen and the Gospel be brought forth, which then is true even if Master Ulrich Zwingli had never come to Ziirich. But I was not thus minded, and did not help to arrange the proposition so that the Gospel should be preached in a revolutionary manner, but according to the essential Christian and peaceful understanding. And furthermore I declared the Gospel does not consist in reading, but in the strength of God, yea in the correct interpretation and understanding, and I have proved by two places in the Gospel of Matthew, Matt. iv. 6, where the tempter cites the saying Ps. xc. From this I have shown THE FIRST ZURICH DISPUTATION. 61 At such complaint the Vicar from Constance again arose, and spoke as follows: These remarks are meant to refer partly to my gracious Lord of Constance and partly to me as his Grace’s Vicar, therefore it is proper that I answer them. The good gentleman —TI really do not know who he is—spoke first as follows, saying that this year our gracious Lord of Constance issued a mandate ordering people to keep the conszitutiones humanas, that is the human ordinances and praiseworthy customs. To this I say, dear lords and gentlemen, there are truly many unfair, ungodly, unchristian opinions and errors at hand, which very often are preached and put before the people, not only here in the Confederation, but also elsewhere in my gracious Lord’s (of Constance) bishopric by unskillful preachers, which opinions and errors, my dear lords and gentlemen, serve more to disobedi- ence, disturbance and discord than the furthering of Christian unity. For they desire to estrange us from the good old inherited customs and usages descended upon us from our old pious Chris- tian fathers many hundred years ago. Perhaps it was with this in mind that my gracious Lord issued the mandate for the sake of peace and unity in his Grace’s bishopric. Of what the real contents of the mandate were I have no accurate knowledge, for at that time, as is known to many, I was absent from home.
that also the evil spirit might, as an old scholar, use and know the Scriptures— and Matt. ii. 6, where the scribes cite the saying of Micah of Bethlehem, but omitted the following correct point—thus by means of these two quotations I have well proven that it is not always sufficient to cite the Gospel or the Scrip- tures (although they have the first seat and the greatest honor), and that the Scriptures do not consist in the reading, but in the correct interpretation; thus and not otherwise it was done. Why didn’t you note that down also for me? Why do you conceal that from me? And in still more unfair and wrongful fashion did you note down this and other of my speeches, how I so often cited the pope and the pope’s affairs.”’ (Faber, correction.) ‘‘ When you cited how also the devil had made use of the Scriptures, Zwingli had answered that is what he was there for, to give answer that he had used them correctly. But you do not wish to take hold of the Scriptures.’? (Hans Hager in ‘‘ Gyren- rupfen.’’)]
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Therefore as far as concerns this mandate I do not desire to speak further. But since the good, pious gentleman (I don’t know where he sits, because I cannot see him,) has referred to the priest imprisoned at Constance my office requires me to make answer. You all know, dear sirs, how this priest was turned over to my gracious Lord of Constance by the common peers [lit. confederates: citizens of the Confederacy] in the diet at Baden as a guilty man. Accordingly my gracious Lord had the prisoner examined and questioned by appointees of his Grace, and the prisoner was found to be an ignorant and erring man in the divine Scriptures, and I myself have often pitied his unskillful remarks. For by my faith I can say that I questioned him myself, went to him in Christian love, set forth to him some of the Scriptures from St. Paul, and he made—what shall I say P— very inaccurate answers. Ah, my dear sirs, what shall I say about this good, simple fellow? He is really untutored, and is not even a grammarian.* For in Christian brotherly love, kindly and without any anger, I mentioned to him some Scriptures, as for instance, that the noble Paul exhorted Timothy, saying: Pietas ad omnia utilis (kindness and greatness are good in all things), and his answer was so childish and unchristian as to be improper to mention and report in the Confederation. But that you may really know, my dear sirs, I spoke with him about praying to the dear saints and to the mother of God, also about their intercession, and I found him so ignorant and unchristian on these points that I pity his error. He insists on making living out of the dead, although the Scriptures show that also before the birth of Christ the dear saints were prayed to and called upon for others, as I finally convinced and persuaded him by means of Scriptures, that is, by Genesis, Exodus, Ezechiel and Baruch. I also brought matters so far that he recanted his error, and desires to recant all his errors about the mother of God and the dear saints. I also hope that he will be grateful to me and soon be released.
* That is not a Latinist.
ee a a, THE FIRST ZURICH DISPUTATION. 63 Therefore, my dear sirs, with regard to the impirsoned priest there is truly no reason why my gracious Lord of Constance, or his representative, should be blamed for this affair. For nothing has been done other than what was proper, fair and becoming.
To this Master Ulrich answered as folows: Dear brethren in Christ, it doubtlessly happened, not without especial destiny and will of God, that my Lord Vicar has just spoken about the praying to and the intercession of the saints and the mother of God. For, that is not the least of the Articles issued by me, upon which I, \;: have preached somewhat, and at which so many simple folk ay ev troubled as though they were frightened by a heretical [lit. un- aad christian] sermon. For I know, and truly find in the divine CP” Scriptures, that Jesus Christ alone can bless us, who, as Paul says, |." alone is the justice of all men, who has expiated our sins, and” He alone, our salvation and Saviour, is the means of intercession between His heavenly Father and us humans who believe, as Saint Paul clearly says to the Hebrews, and as you of Ziirich have often heard from me when I preached to you from your favorite, the epistle to the Hebrews. Now since my Lord Vicar announces and publicly boasts of how he convinced the imprisoned priest at Constance, the clergyman of Fislisbach, by means of the divine Scriptures, of the fact that one should pray to the dear saints and the mother of God, therefore that they are our mediators with God, I beg of him for the sake of God and of Christian love to show me the place and location, also the words of the Scrip- tures, where it is written that one should pray to the saints as mediators, so that if I have erred, and err now, I may be better instructed, since there are here present Bibles in the Hebrew, Greek and Latin languages. These we will have examined by those present who are sufficiently well taught in the above-mentioned tongues, so I desire no more to be shown than the chapters in which such is written, as my Lord Vicar states, then we will have it found and read, so that we may see whether it is the meaning of Scripture that the saints are to hiss epee to as ee N fem Nor ihe AR N 0 Be (VAP. Fo N \ as 64 ZWINGLI SELECTIONS.
case that is so, and is really found to be in Scripture (as the Vicar also asserts to have convinced the imprisoned priest), I also will gladly, as an ignorant man, submit to instruction where I have erred.
ANSWER OF THE VICAR TO THE WORDS OF MASTER ULRICH.